Why is 写真をとられる strange?
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“I had a picture taken by my brother.”
Usually, this should be:
兄/弟に写真をとってもらった.
Instead, if you write:
兄/弟に写真をとられた.
Its meaning is considerably different, though it simply looks like the passive. It means both “My brother had my picture taken against my will and by force” and “My brother took the/a picture(s) I had (by force).” The reason is, I guess, that the core meaning of とる is to “take the control of something.”
However, there still remain unsolved problems. If とる means as the above one, it is almost the same as “take” in English, isn’t it? Moreover, is “I was taken a picture of by my brother” possible? If so, what is the difference from “I had a picture taken by my brother”?
I wonder if there is some similarity between “have something p.p.” and “もらう”.
See also:
http://lang-8.com/satoshi/journals/894276/ (試験が終わってくれてうれしい)
Usually, this should be:
兄/弟に写真をとってもらった.
Instead, if you write:
兄/弟に写真をとられた.
Its meaning is considerably different, though it simply looks like the passive. It means both “My brother had my picture taken against my will and by force” and “My brother took the/a picture(s) I had (by force).” The reason is, I guess, that the core meaning of とる is to “take the control of something.”
However, there still remain unsolved problems. If とる means as the above one, it is almost the same as “take” in English, isn’t it? Moreover, is “I was taken a picture of by my brother” possible? If so, what is the difference from “I had a picture taken by my brother”?
I wonder if there is some similarity between “have something p.p.” and “もらう”.
See also:
http://lang-8.com/satoshi/journals/894276/ (試験が終わってくれてうれしい)
Its meaning is considerably differentl, though it simply looks like the passive.
If とる means as the above one, it is almost the same as “take” in English, isn’t it?Yes. But I believe the writer had a different motive than a picture being taken by force.
Moreover, is “I was taken a picture of by my brother” possible?It is very unlikely. If it existed, it would be a confusing sentence. Though, oddly, it works.
"I had a picture taken by my brother" = "My brother took a picture for me/兄/弟に写真をとってもらった."
"My brother took the picture away from me" = "My brother took the picture I had/兄/弟に写真をとられた." If "taken by my brother" was used to describe a picture that the speaker used to have before the brother took it away, the sentence would just be passive form.
I'm surprised that English is full of so many idiomatic expressions. It makes studying a language much more interesting.