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The other day, one of my acquaintances called her son, "馬鹿息子" (bakamusuko), while we had a casual conversation. That four-letter Kanji literally means "a stupid son".
Honestly, I was surprised and sad to hear that, since I knew that she loved her son. Obviously, she talked in a modest manner. Here in Japan, if you boasted your child, Japanese people would call you
"親バカ"（oyabaka), that means "a stupid parent".
As for me, I've never called my daughters that way behind their back. I just felt sorry for her son. If I were him, I would definitely feel bad about it. In my opinion, Japanese modesty is sometimes going too far.
Honestly, I was surprised and sad to hear that, since I knew that she loved her son. Obviously, she talked in a modest manner. Here in Japan, if you boasted your child, Japanese people would call you
"親バカ"（oyabaka), that means "a stupid parent".
As for me, I've never called my daughters that way behind their back. I just felt sorry for her son. If I were him, I would definitely feel bad about it. In my opinion, Japanese modesty is sometimes going too far.
先日、なにげない会話をしていて知人が息子さんを「馬鹿息子」と呼んだ。その四字熟語は、文字通り英語で
”a stupid son” を意味する。
私はそれを聞いて驚いたし悲しかった。なぜなら彼女が息子さんを愛している事はわかっていたから。明らかに
彼女は謙遜でそのように言ったのだ。日本では、もし子供を自慢すれば、「親バカ」と言われる。英語では
”a stupid parent” という意味だ。
私は、娘達がいないところでそのような言い方をした事は一度もない。私はただ息子さんが気の毒だった。私が彼だったらおそらくいい気持ちはしないだろう。日本の謙遜って、時に行き過ぎていると思う事がある。
”a stupid son” を意味する。
私はそれを聞いて驚いたし悲しかった。なぜなら彼女が息子さんを愛している事はわかっていたから。明らかに
彼女は謙遜でそのように言ったのだ。日本では、もし子供を自慢すれば、「親バカ」と言われる。英語では
”a stupid parent” という意味だ。
私は、娘達がいないところでそのような言い方をした事は一度もない。私はただ息子さんが気の毒だった。私が彼だったらおそらくいい気持ちはしないだろう。日本の謙遜って、時に行き過ぎていると思う事がある。
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In my opinion, Japanese modesty is sometimes goes too far.
It is sad, but I don't think feeling sorry for her son is the answer here however confronting her about is also not the option, we'll just have to let them settle this between themselfs, in my country many parents call their children stupid when they misbehave but they never truly mean it. Maybe that is the case in your situation?
Some Japanese parents call their sons that way even though they do anything wrong. That's a typical Japanese modesty.
The other day, one of my acquaintances called her son, "馬鹿息子" (bakamusuko), while we were having a casual conversation.
That term literally means "a stupid son".
Here in Japan, if you boast about your child, Japanese people would call you
"親バカ"（oyabaka), which means "a stupid parent".
As for me, I've never called my daughters anything like this behind their back.
I think it's sad too. At least she didn't really mean it!
Have you heard those expressions before?
I agree with you though. It's not a very good expression. In Australia, it would be very strange for a parent to call their son 馬鹿息子 if they are trying to be humble. At best, I think they may say, 'He's not that great,' or 'There are others better than him.' It still sounds a bit bad, but not as bad as 馬鹿息子, I think!
The other day, one of my acquaintances called her son, "馬鹿息子" (bakamusuko), while we were having a casual conversation.
In my opinion, Japanese modesty sometimes goes too far.
Aw, that's a shame! I'm sure he's not stupid and her expectations may be a bit high.
Yup~~! Are you enjoying your's~~?
The other day, one of my acquaintances called her son, "馬鹿息子" (bakamusuko), while we were having a casual conversation.
She called him "idiot"; he called her "smart lady"
No need to put a comma before a short phrase in quotes :)
That four-character Kanji literally means "a stupid son".
Obviously, she was talking modestly.
If I were he, I would definitely feel bad about it.
Most people say "if I were him", but this is grammatically wrong.
"him" is an object pronoun. Ex:
If I saw him. If I gave the book to him << these are all right :)
It's a shame that she called her son that name.
「ウチの馬鹿息子」と言われても、別に「あ、馬鹿なのか」とは思わないし、気の毒とも思わないけどなぁ。むしろ、具体的な馬鹿エピソードがないから名称だけ、みたいな気もする。
それと、日本の謙遜は、相手を立てることと同時に、無限の向上心がある気がする。子育てには100点はないだろうから。
もちろん、日本人以外では、言語構造と文化含めて、理解されないのは百も承知だけど。
日本の謙遜は、無限の向上心がある？深い読みですね。よくわからないけど...
黒澤明監督が、「僕は映画のことがまだ良くわかっていない」って言ってたように、まだまだ上があるから慢心してはいけない、っていうことみたいな。
That four-kanji phrase literally means "a stupid son".
Obviously, she was talking in "humble mode".
I think that ［謙遜」requires a little stronger word than "modest". 謙遜 indicates a particular mode of speech which is unique to Japanese, and "modest" doesn't convey that idea to an English speaker who doesn't know Japanese.
I agree. "modest" doesn't convey that idea to an English speaker who doesn't know Japanese. Thank you!
Very interesting journal entry, straightforwardさん。
Wow, I've never heard anyone use either of those phrases.... But you're right, it doesn't sound good, even if you are trying to be modest...
It's so confusing.. if someone tells me about something naughty their kid did, how can I tell if they really mean it, or if they're just saying something to be modest, but actually their kid is really well-behaved?
I have one question. Would you scroll up and read Hugh's comment. Do you agree with him?
If I say, "Obviously, she was talking in humble mode", is it more understandable?
I guess I'd say, 'Obviously she was just being modest.' and leave it to the reader to figure it out. If you wanted to be really clear and explain it, as is often done in books about foreign cultures for people who don't know the customs of that culture, you could say something like 'Obviously she was just putting her son down, as is often done in Japan when talking about one's family, so she wouldn't come off as bragging about him.'
>'Obviously she was just being modest.' and leave it to the reader to figure it out.
Right. I can't explain everything about Japanese customs and their way of thinking. Don't you think that there are so many mysterious things here in Japan?
That four-character word literally means "a stupid son".
As for me, I've never called my daughters that way behind their backs.
I think the son did something makes her say like that.
if you say like this in front of your kids they will be so disappointed.
we shouldn't say like that as i think.
That four-character compound literally means "a stupid son".
This is just yet another way of saying it.
Obviously, she was talking humbly.
I agree that "modest" is not quite right here, and that "humble" is better.
If I were him, I would definitely feel bad about it.
I would actually suggest keeping "him" here. It's used for objects of verbs and prepositions, but it's also just the default form for pronouns in English:
Me, I like to dance.
Who went to the store? Me.
I think that the version with the object pronouns sounds much more natural. Using the subject pronoun in be-sentences is a "rule" that people get taught in high school English classes, but it sounds very unnatural to many, many speakers.
Many of my Chinese friends used to get called "stupid egg" by their parents. They laughed about it when they were older, but I think it hurt them when it happened. In the U.S., it could be considered emotional abuse, depending on the situation.
I memorized the example sentence, "if I were you, 〜", so I was confused whether "you" is the object pronoun or the subject pronoun. ><
Thank you for your explanation. I'll remember that.
I agree. A child is not a parent's possession, so parents shouldn't say so.
I think the reason the rule doesn't "work" is that it's one of those prescriptive rules that has been taken from Latin (like the rule about split infinitives). It's not based on any native rules of American English, so even if students are taught it, they ignore it. Other rules (like the one about fewer/less) have a basis in the native rules of American English, so people often remember and follow them.
>I agree. A child is not a parent's possession, so parents shouldn't say so.
Absolutely. Parents are guardians, not owners! And all people are deserving of respect.
That four-character idiom literally means "a stupid son".
>just another way of saying it