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I sometimes see Japanese young people offer their seats to elderly people on the train. I usually try to do the same, and I feel good when they accept my offer.
The other day, I saw that an old man left his wallet on the counter at the post office. Immediately before I tried to tell him, the other man who was standing near him called him back to give his belonging.
It's nice to see such good behavior and I'm proud of being Japanese.
The other day, I saw that an old man left his wallet on the counter at the post office. Immediately before I tried to tell him, the other man who was standing near him called him back to give his belonging.
It's nice to see such good behavior and I'm proud of being Japanese.
私は、時々電車の中で若者がお年寄りに席を譲る光景をみる。私も普段そうする事を心がけていて、席を譲る事が出来た時はよかった思う。
先日、お年寄りが郵便局のカウンターに財布を置いたまま立ち去ろうとしている事に気づいた。私が声をかけようと思った直前、近くにいた別の男性が彼を呼び財布を渡してくれた。
そのような思いやりのある行為をみると嬉しいし、日本人である事を誇りに思う。
先日、お年寄りが郵便局のカウンターに財布を置いたまま立ち去ろうとしている事に気づいた。私が声をかけようと思った直前、近くにいた別の男性が彼を呼び財布を渡してくれた。
そのような思いやりのある行為をみると嬉しいし、日本人である事を誇りに思う。
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You should be proud, Japanese are the kindest people I have ever heard of.
You seem to like american idioms (like "Put your John Hancock here"), so here is another one you can use:
"Before I could say Jack Robinson, another guy already called him back to give his belonging."
It would be fun if you put the longest English name instead of Jack Robinson. :P
Wow, that is quite a debate going on downstairs.
And it doesn't seem to have anything to do with your post.
I see no reason at all you can't say that you are proud of being Japanese.
Moreover, I still think you should be proud ^^
There is not another place in the world you can forget your wallet having the hope of retrieving it later.
I guess I was lucky, because it's just as likely that someone will try to kill me to get said wallet.
http://www.roflposters.com/live-in-russia-instead-of-playing-postapocalyptic-rpgs/581065/
You live in a stressful society, don't you?
I don't live in Russia after all, it's a bit better here in Belarus. Not as safe as for example in Japan, of course.
rofl!!!
You cannot be proud of a nationality. You can be proud of your abilities, because you train and work daily for those to excell. You can be proud of winning a piano contest with the first price, because you practiced day and night like hell until your fingers hurt all together. You can be proud of accomplishing a great performance in front of an audience.
You cannot be even happy to be "a nationality". What is nationality really? I really don't like patriots, because they have a wrong concept of arguing for it. If you are happy to be a Japanese, are you happy about what makes you a Japanese, i.e. history (massacres in China), even if you were not directly affiliated/concerned/involved in the happenings?
I think culture/language is much more of a point. For example, I'm happy that I was born in Germany and that I'm allowed to live in a country where I can get an education and speak freely without being censored or put in jail for criticising my government. I'm happy not to be born in north korea, because I know what makes living worth here in Germany. I value this state and its laws. But I'm not "proud to be a German", because there is absolutely nothing I could contribute with my personal abilities to become a German. There is nothing wrong with admitting freely to be happy to live in country X. But please stop saying you are proud.
I don't mean to offend you personally now, straightforwardさん, but I'm shouting this out to all Japanese who might read and understand this. I was at a debate three days ago and exactly this issue was discussed, that's why I'm a bit eager giving a detailed/long answer here:)
Having said this, I can imagine not every Japanese would stand up for an elder woman/man. I think this is greatly up to education, perhaps thanks to culture in which elderly were always treated as wise figures with respect. (which is also bullshit, I find, since just because they are old, it does not mean you automatically should respect them for being something you are not even aware of what they are, ne!)
Thanks for reading. I hope you can understand my anger and "mission". Patriotism is evil and ugly.
Japan is one of the safest and livable countries where people live; there is lesser number of crimes including theft,luggage lifting, murderers, serial killers, and sexual assault compared with other countries. Women can go out alone at night with any problems. I have to be careful about my personal belongings here in Sydney or other countries when going out. If you lost your wallet here or other cities, it would be very difficult to get it back later. That's one point.
Another point is that giving up a seat for elderly people is not so common in Japan, I guess. There happens sometimes, but it's not really proudly said that Japanese people are considerate so they make a seat for an old person (because they are old and look vulnerable than younger people). I'm not sure if elderly people are happy about being given a seat, seemingly they are marked as "old". But it's a "consideration." As opposed to straightfoward-san's thought, I think it's rare for people to give up a seat in train or bus in this self-centred society, where people tend to think of themselves all the time, so it may be a matter of joy to see that people still are considerate towards others.
Culture and society create people and characteristics to some extent, so people who have grown up in Japan have touched with safeness in society. At least, you don't see people fighting or shouting on the street when they drunk as often as in other cities. But that doesn't mean I'm proud of being Japanese or anything. I think I'm lucky to have access to education, better infrastructure, advanced technology, convenience of public transportation, medical care, etc because of being Japanese. But I would feel the same if I were born in Germany or other developed countries. So people may embrace being Japanese.
I just remember when I talked with a friend who was born in USSR and lives in Sydney. I was asked, "What will happen in Japan in 10 years or 20 years time?" Japan has a lower birth rate and society is aging; more older people and less children. Country has to accept more immigrant in order to sustain the society. Japanese people have a tendency toward xenophobia, but they have to change. In 10 or 20 years, more mixed children (double/half.. whatever we call) will be born. Nationalism will also change if they had.
>"Japan is one of the safest countries in the world"
That might be certainly true, but what is the cause for this? It's the laws and regulations made by politics. (Let's don't start a discussion about corruption of (single) politicians and stuff like that here, ok?^^)
>wallet
I heard this about Japan, too, and I guess that this point is due to education of children. It's not right to take something home that does not belong to you and someone else lost. I find this value very good and it's the same with me.
I guess it's too easy to pretend to be proud of something that doesn't even need you. Japan does not need proud Japanese people. What Japan needs are considerate empowered individuals who are free in speech, living, motion and who are not xenophobic.
Patriotism is strongly bounded to racism. Of course, biological races *do* exist - although Biology doesn't use this term anymore due to historical reasons (Hitler manipulated and abused this term and ~7mio. people were killed brutally) - but what in the world would make them less of a human being!? Nothing.
What stroke me was a story of a friend traveling to Japan. When he wanted to enter an onsen-pool, all the Japanese sitting in it said ちぇ、ガイジン and left the pool in front of his and his girlfriend's eyes! That makes me very sad and gives me a wrong impression of the consideration and sympathy Japanese have and why I learn Japanese.
To be honest, this is a main reason I feel I will be damnd scared when I come to Japan. I won't struggle finding my way to different locations, perhaps my Japanese will be difficult to understand and such, but what scares the hell out of me is this subtle and latent racism. It's difficult to fight this fixed idea in my head. I have many Japanese friends here on Lang8 who are different and a good example for Japanese who are anything but racist!!! I don't know what 倫理 classes in 高校 are like, but is this a topic? If not, why not?
Sorry for getting slightly heated up ^_^
It bonds people together and in times of difficulty helps them overcome certain obstacles, just like a family does. It's not about what the country needs, it's about how the people of that country feel about others and themselves. It is an emotional connection.
>>Patriotism is strongly bounded to racism.
This does not make patriotism inherently bad. It's like saying religion is strongly bounded to violence, which is even more true, but does that mean that having faith in something intangible is wrong? No, not at all. There is nothing inherently wrong with religion that causes it to be violent.
PEOPLE cause religion to be violent, just like people twist patriotism into racism and violence. It is possible to be a proud whatever and feel love for other nations/peoples; it is not patriotism that is the barrier to equality.
I checked my German dictionary for learners and per definitionem it seems you can be proud only of abilities or achievements that make you proud. There is nothing wrong with the metaphor of an extended family: those members possess the same culture, the same language and naturally it makes you feel connected to those more than to anyone else!
I don't think it is as easy as just generalising and saying that "people" turn religion into a bad thing or patriotism into violence and racism. (I have nothing against nationalism as this represents your culture and respective language, however, patriotism involves always values and terms such as "blood and honour" and the like. Stuff like 'fighting for one's patria' is absolute crap. Mind my pacifism.) It's not the people, but rather the unconciousness and the easy way of saying I'm proud of being x-nationality. It's a trap.
Equality exists only if there is unity. Unity is only possible without borders, without nations. I know, this is conceptualised theory, it's probably not even possible without omitting the capitalist order, the economical system of the world, but this theory applies practically. Nationalities are too often used to classify, to order and to distinguish human intellectual ressources, capacities and the human existance itself. And in the very moment you start to distinguish and differentiate you do that based on factual, real-existing nationalities. That's why I simply cannot accept a plain-stupid "I'm proud of my nationality" kind of thing. What did those people contribute to become x-nationality, what did they endure, what did they move forward? How did they turned out/ended up in that state? It was luck, genetical coincidence - perhaps divine intervention (doubt it, but just for the sake of completeness).
And as much as your statement on religion applies, I see the same problem in patriotism/nationality (you can omit Religion, as it's mostly nothing that determines culture. At least here in Germany I cannot think of anything typical German that is due to Christianity for example, however, not the feeling of a collective, as you wrote, this "family" sort of thing. It's the interdependant connectin/net between single individuals of societies, right) just much stronger, as the feeling of belonging to a nation cannot be omitted -- and it should not be. Our personal/individual development is psychologically dependant to a great extent to our unique environment. You might see a counter-argument against the "no border no nations" idea in here, too, and I agree. Forming a conglomerate/unity of folks might end up in something catastrophic... but that's another story, isn't it?^^
To end this, simply linguistically speaking, you can be happy/glad/lucky to be x-nationality, but not "proud".
Thank you for your comments and frank opinions. Honestly, when I reread my entry, I must say that it was a huge reap between the last two sentences.
I shouldn't have said "I'm proud of being Japanese", since I'm not proud of Japanese nationality.
As a matter of fact, the last statement was based on my personal experience. When I traveled many developing countries, I had to pay attention not to stolen my passport and wallet all the time. I had been exhausted, uneasy and unsecured for 24 hours for many weeks. Some Japanese people's good behaviors revived memories that were exceedingly bad.
Anyway, thank you again for pointing out this sensitive issue. I could learn a lot from all of you.
Here's an example from my own home. Let's say the news on TV are reporting a person (or several people) for doing something hideous and/or against law. If it is a caucasian, then my dad might say "what a fool" or "hm!". But if the person happens to be black or Asian, then he will most likely say comments like "what a bastard/jerk/piece of trash/**** (even worse, hard to translate to English). Also, one of our neighbors supposedly often treats subordinates (on work) and some other people in a bad way, so my parents hate his entire family, even his 4-6-year old grandchildren who did nothing wrong. WTF.......
adj. proud·er, proud·est
1. Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth.
I don't think it's uncommon to be proud of things that you had no control over. I don't think it's linguistically incorrect to be proud of being X nationality either. People attribute things that their nation or community does, to their national image. It becomes a quality of themselves (in their eyes).
If you go to America, people in the south are "proud to be from the south", because the south is really well known for being friendly. These people are also friendly, so they contribute (in their small part) to the image of the south. They are proud of what being "south" represents.
Of course, the south is known for bad things as well, but that is the case everywhere. People identify with qualities that are "known", and are proud of being those qualities (i.e. that nationality). The qualities (like being friendly) are intertwined with the nationality.
>>>Forming a conglomerate/unity of folks might end up in something catastrophic... but that's another story, isn't it?^^
I agree there. I think competition is inherent, as is some form of nationalism. In the correct environment it can be very healthy. Unfortunately like all things, a few people take things too far.
Sorry for hijacking your post straightforward. >.<
Thanks for your answer!
Please re-read your post and recognise you are talking about nationalism -- not about patriotism. I think there is a huge gap between it. We all have to admit that the "unhealthy way/form of nationalism", which I think is patriotism indeed, leads only to evil and racism.
When I think about America's South, I have to think about the KKK. Sorry, that's all that was ever transmitted in my advanced English class about the South. And, that you can harvest oranges in Florida (wtf. incoherent, but anyhow)...
I understand why you have bad feelings towards patriotism, but patriotism is a good thing, based on love. Unfortunately it's gotten a bad rep. :(
>>>And, that you can harvest oranges in Florida (wtf. incoherent, but anyhow)...
LOL It's also the sunshine state (a lie).
If you cannot be proud of your country, than you cannot be ashamed either. Without pride or shame, you have nihilism.
I am extremely proud of the Silicon Valley ecosystem. When no one else could, that our elite engineers escaped Chilean miners who were trapped underground for 2 months made me proud.
If Germans are not proud of their pioneering work in particle physics and jet engine technology, then that is hard to believe.
Likewise, Mitsubishi's new carbon fibre technology is world-beating. Toyota's electric car technology is unrivaled. If Japanese are not proud of Mitsubishi and Toyota, I don't understand.
Also, I can be proud of some of my family members, or some of my friends, even if I had nothing to do with (had no control over) their achievements, successes, or them simply being a good person.
Although I agree with Kame-san's saying that people can be positive, joyful and motivate themselves by being proud of their country, if you say things like "I'm proud of my country, companies, or people", it often implies your country, those companies, or the people are better than others.
People tend to see their position/class where they are standing in a hierarchy by comparing with others, other countries, or companies, because society is competitive. If people know they(or their country) are better than others, they may be motivated by a sense of superiority. But I guess it's not something you should be proud of the country or being the citizen/nation of the country.
I'm not proud of Mitsubishi and Toyota. Though the companies are great successful in the world, that doesn't mean I'm proud of it because of the fact that I'm Japanese. With the globalisation, a successful company in the world is often composed of multi-nations along with part of services being outsourced. Take a Nissan for example, Carlos Ghosn is the president of Nissan; he's not Japanese but he made the company succeed. Should we be proud of the company because we are Japanese and the company is a domestic one? If Toyota created a defect car causing the drivers being danger, should I be ashamed of it? I think these kind of things are questionable when using "be proud of a country or company." We all are in part of society while adapting and contributing to it. Even if a breakthrough technology of your country is succeed and dominated in the world, we are still in part of the society. Someone may help or heavily involve with the technology to be successful, but that doesn't mean others in the same country are helping to make it success.
This is like when people are watching at a world soccer game. If your country's team win, you will feel good. But what's the point of it?
Boeing trusted only Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to make the carbon fiber wings for the 787. And, they required that the entire wing be constructed only in Japan. No outsourcing was allowed. This is because Japan has excellent quality control for mass producing high-tech products.
≈^◉‿⦿^≈♫♪
I think you both pushed the discussion into a wrong direction that has nothing to do with the core-question, which was the overly generalised statement "I'm proud of Japanese, because they stand up for elder people in the bus." The argument evoking the discussion was "I could show you Japanese people who would not stand up for elder/pregnant people."
That are [pioneering in Germany, Mitsubishi's quality management in Japan etc] merely strawhat-arguments and do not contribute to the discussion whether patriotism is good/evil or if we as humanity should keep on practicing it. The reason Japan produces as high quality machines and stuff is, that they have as strict guidelines as probably Germany - that's it. There is nothing that makes this decided by culture or patriotism of THE Japanese single person, THE German singular person...
Furthermore, nihilism is not defined as "if you are not proud/ashamed of your country, then you are a nihilist". It has nothing to do with proud/ashame or love/hate or whatever, it's just the philosophy of disposing all one's ethics and morals (as Nietzsche wrote in his dictum 'GOD IS DEAD'), especially christian values. Just because I don't feel in a way proud that "Made in Germany" products are well sold and well known for their quality, I'm not especially.. proud of my country. I'm proud of the people, no, not even proud, I'm amazed by those witty heads inventing all these technologies and guidelines ensuring high quality.
I think Chris puts it very well: patriotism can be a good thing. Evolutionally, people need borders and their countries, people who speak their native language and share the culture. People want to be connected with something there are familiar from their early days onwards. That's understandable and that is the social basis of patriotism.
However, in modern times, where racism is still a huge topic, people need to get more conscious of what patriotism is. They need to dig into deep theory and they HAVE to learn how to draw the line between patriotism/racist patriotism. People don't dig it, however, because it's too complex and requires mental effords of thinking and thinking. People make it easy. But life isn't.
I came to a conclusion for myself.
First, everyone is a part of community/society.
When the society you belong is good, you should be proud of it to continue the good things as a part of society.
When the society you belong is wrong, you should be ashamed of it to make a change.
What Straightforward is proud of is the community where people are kind to elderly and pregnant people.(It's obviously good things) That's incidentally Japan. It has nothing to do with nationalism or patriotism.
The scale/range of society that you think you belong depends on circumstances. While you're proud of Toyota, you might forget about a shameful killer in the neighboring city. However, what's important is to make the society you belong better. It will eventually spread to broader area.
When it comes to nationalism and patriotism, they themselves aren't bad things. They'll be wrong only when they're used to attack or give a damn to other nations.
Racism sucks, but that racism sucks is already so apparent that we don't have to even discuss.
The other day, I saw that an old man who {had} left his wallet on the counter at the post office.
Immediately before I tried to tell him, the another man who was standing near him called him back to give his wallet .belonging.
Belonging does not work very well here. It is usually expressed in the plural form "belongings". The wallet would have contained cards , identification , money. So "belongings would be technically correct . I still prefer just "wallet" for this sentence. I will see what you other other friends think.
I am taking a rest from correcting this weekend. I will look at your entry again during the weekend . I hope you have a nice weekend. It has been raining heavily in Australia, Japan, South Africa, and Canada this week.
Bye Bye.
Thanks for your help.
Please take a rest and relax this weekend. I want you to forget about my entry during your holiday! ^^
I sometimes see young Japanese young people offer their seats to elderly people on the train.
This seems like a more natural word order to me ^_^
The other day, I saw that an old man left his wallet on the counter at the post office.
Your original sentence is perfect!
"I saw *that* an old man *who had*" does not make sense. (^^;)
Immediately before I tried to tell him, the other man who was standing near him called him back to give him his belongings.
It's nice to see such good behavior and I'm proud to be Japanese.
"of being" is ok too, but I think this is more natural ^^
It's nice to see ^_^
It's nice to see such good behavior, and I'm proud of being Japanese.
Place a comma before the coordinating conjunction in a compound sentence.
WOW! That's really great! Japanese people are very different from Americans because they are about "collectivism" and Americans are about "individuality" so when they see something happen like that there are SOME Americans who will give back the wallet, but many would probably take it for themselves. Sadly.
It's like a "Your on your own" when your in a America. If you get your things taken, your on you own, that type of thing. But I've always admired Japanese people for being kind and considerate.
Again, I'm not saying "all Americans are mean and won't help you if your in trouble" because there are many nice American people, but I'm saying realistically living in America...your on your own. Especially living in New York! I do my best to be respectful and offer kind acts like that to people ^^ ii ne~
Thank you for letting me know a new expression.
By the way, your new photo is very nice! It seems you are enjoying your new life!
: )
and yes I am! I will show you photos of my apartment later!
Very good ! You must stick to it.
All I have to say after reading all the comments made on this post is 1. "Patriotism" and "Love of Country" are two entirely different different things.
2. Turning Straightforward's nice post of seeing kindest being done by people in Japan to the elderly, and turning it into a political debate is against the charter of Lang-8.com.
3. We are here as "friends" to share our language and culture.
4. Several things were mentioned about Japans history.
We have an expression in English :{ We cannot be held responsible for the sins of our fathers {ancestors}.
I deeply appreciate it.
Before I could even tell him, another man who was standing near him called him back to give him his belonging.
I offered a slight variation.
Such a pleasure to read your entries!!