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Before I Arrived ...

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Apr 17th 2012 03:33 tense-aspect
I came across this sentence in a book.

(A) "My father had died before I arrived there."

Do you think the sentences below are correct for rephrasing (A)?

(B) "My father died before I arrived there."
(C) "My father had been dead before I arrived there."
(D) "My father was dead before I arrived there."

I'd appreciate your support!
tony
Thank you for your correction!
Apr 17th 2012 07:01
  • (B) "My father died before I arrived there."

  • (B) "My father died before I arrived there."

    This is correct, but it is a neutral statement indicating the time sequence of two events. In contrast, (A) suggests strongly that I was trying to get there in time to be with my father while he was still alive, but I didn't get there in time. (B) is not a good replacement for (A), although it does convey which of two events happened first.

 
  • (C) "My father had been dead before I arrived there."

  • (C) "My father had been dead before I arrived there."

    This is unnatural. It would be more natural with a period of time specified, and "before" replaced by "when": "My father had been dead for over two hours when I arrived."

 
  • (D) "My father was dead before I arrived there."

  • (D) "My father was dead before I arrived there."

    This is also unnatural.

 
The two crucial facts are (1) the act of dying occurred before the act of arriving, and (2) the father was dead (a state) AT THE TIME of the child's arrival.

While it is true that the state of being dead was present for the entire time between the two events, this is not something of particular interest, and it is implied anyway by the action of dying having occurred.

This is why (C) and (D) are unnatural. They focus on the father's state of being dead in the time interval between the two actions, which is not something anyone would care about.
Apr 19th 2012 00:55 M-K-G
Thank you so much for clear explanations as always =)
Apr 19th 2012 10:14 hiralingual
What about these?

(E) He started to talk about his girlfriend again before his mother let out a long sigh.
(F) He had started to talk about his girlfriend again before his mother let out a long sigh.

I think (F) will sound strange to you.
Apr 19th 2012 10:25 tony
"Before" sounds strange in both. Presumably his talking about his girlfriend again is the cause of the mother's sigh; "and" in either sentence would not imply this definitely, but it would suggest it. Whether "started" or "had started" is more natural has more to do with the surrounding sentences than with what is being expressed in this sentence alone. "Before" does simply place the two events in time, making no connection between them. I would have to work hard to invent a context in which it sounded at all natural.
Apr 19th 2012 10:33 hiralingual
Ah I see. What about these then?
G) He finished packing for the trip before the phone suddenly rang.
H) He had finished packing for the trip before the phone suddenly rang.
Apr 19th 2012 10:40 tony
Both are possible. The following sound better to me, however.

(G') He finished packing for the trip, and then the phone suddenly rang.
(H') He had just finished packing for the trip when the phone suddenly rang.

The adverb "suddenly" makes the verb phrase "suddenly rang" focus on a brief instant of time; that is the reason these variants sound better to me.
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I came across this sentence in a book. (A) "My father had died before I arrived there." Do you think the sentences below are correct for rephrasing (A)? (B) "My father died before I arrived there." (C) "My father had been dead before I arrived there." (D) "My father was dead before I arriv


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