Do you like your mother tongue?
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A few weeks ago, a friend of mine went to my house and after some days spent here, she told me she didn't like her own language: Japanese. She even told me she hated this language.
I had never heard of people who hated their own language so I was a little bit shocked.
It seemed she saw her own language used in a very bad way and some people said awful things.
Even so, it's the language we've always been speaking and living with.
How can we reject it?
In my opinion, French is a beautiful language although its pronunciation and its conjugation are quite hard - I recognise it!
I would never think I was unlucky to be born and raised as a French native speaker.
I like it as much as I plan on teaching it to foreigners who are motivated enough to learn it.
And even if something makes me like French a little bit less, I don't think I would reject my own language as my friend did.
It's true that our languages are badly used on the Internet and full of mistakes in chats, etc. but Internet is an exception.
What do you think about this?
I had never heard of people who hated their own language so I was a little bit shocked.
It seemed she saw her own language used in a very bad way and some people said awful things.
Even so, it's the language we've always been speaking and living with.
How can we reject it?
In my opinion, French is a beautiful language although its pronunciation and its conjugation are quite hard - I recognise it!
I would never think I was unlucky to be born and raised as a French native speaker.
I like it as much as I plan on teaching it to foreigners who are motivated enough to learn it.
And even if something makes me like French a little bit less, I don't think I would reject my own language as my friend did.
It's true that our languages are badly used on the Internet and full of mistakes in chats, etc. but Internet is an exception.
What do you think about this?
A few weeks ago, a friend of mine went came to my house and after some days spent here, she told me she didn't like her own language: Japanese.
She even told me she hated this her language.
But the Internet is an exception.
Hmm, yes I think you're right but for me the reason people abuse of languages is that they don't think any more about what they're writing whereas they had to when they had to write something in a letter or something.
I'm not saying I want to write letters again, haha :D
Of course Japanese is easier than European languages, but only in certain points.
It doesn't have any articles, almost no difficult conjugations like there are in Spanish or French, the plural/ singular are mixed up and the pronunciation is very easy.
On the opposite, the sentences are quite hard to make for us because it's completely the contrary of our way to make sentences and they have different level of languages like the Keigo which is quite hard to master. Ex:(Do I have to abase myself with this verb or is this a verb to praise the other person?)
Even though I may complain about English, I really love my first language and feel fortunate that it is my first language and I realize that the things I consider hard or weird about it are just a result of how the language has evolved over the years.
As for the Internet, I use to get upset when I saw ungrammatical English being used, but I think of it another dialect of English now. It's just one of the different ways you can use the language.
Hmm, yes you're right, I think English should only have had (can you understand this?) regular verbs since English conjugation is quite easy - the easiest among all languages I'm learning (Japanese, Spanish).
For me, Spanish is quite hard to remember because of all the accents but I think I only need to get more used to it.
Of course, you can think like that but this is still a bad use of a language whereas dialects use different words, not ungrammatical things.
As for me, I love Japanese, my mother language, and I won't ever reject it.
However, I partly sympathize with her in the sadness caused by the bad manner in which the language is sometimes used.
What she says is true; the language Japanese are "used in a very bad way and some people said awful things."
To make matters worse, that occurs not only on the Internet.
I think that she truly loves the Japanese language, and that it's the reason why she's hurt by the current situation.
In fact, she told me about "２ちゃん” whose Japanese is so awful that it has become another language ２ちゃん語.
In this site, everything is shortened so that the users can type quickly.
Like お疲れ様→乙.
I think it's interesting but I don't think it's a good idea to modify words as much as these users do.
French is also very badly used and French people don't know any more how to write French correctly, they confuse everything that sounds similar "ça, sa" "c'est, ses, ces"... that's pathetic!
In my opinion, she really hates Japanese, she has seen too many people using Japanese in a very bad way.
She's not even a lover of her own language. If she was, she could have corrected my wrong Japanese, at least, but she couldn't...
She might really hate Japanese...
In fact, I love to use a language in a strange way as a joke, say slang on the internet.
It's enjoyable to be a fool sometimes.
I'm probably one of those whom she cannot accept ><
The problem, I think, is that people use the language in a bad way without consciousness, and that they won't learn correct use of the language.
Of course, that's an enjoyable way to use languages, I particularly like being funny using Japanese ^^
And sometimes, slang from the Internet is quite funny and everybody uses it, don't you think so?
On the opposite, wrongly typing Japanese(変換ミス）, wrongly spelling a word in French, etc, might get the person in a state of confusion where they(he/she) don't know any more how to write correctly... :s
I agree with you that we should avoid unnecessary wrong typing or spelling in order not to make people confused.
Now, I go to bed.
The conversation with you was a great interest to me ^^
I hope that I didn't offend you by my bad use of English or my strange way of thinking.
Good night. ( _ _)zzz
Bonne nuit et à demain sûrement !
明日の夜から休みなので、Skypeで話すのが楽しみですよ(^_-)
Peut-on haïr sa propre langue natale ?
C'est une question intéressante, je serai curieux de connaitre les motivations de ton amie.
Je comprends que l'on puisse détester sa langue natale (grammaire difficile à maitriser, mauvais souvenirs d'école pour étudier, punition, etc... la liste peut-être longue ^^).
Le français est une langue difficile où j'ai beaucoup souffert (et je souffre encore^^) pour l'étudier tellement sa maîtrise est difficile ; mais c'est tellement plaisant de maîtriser une langue pleine de nuances. D'ailleurs,si le français est utilisé pour la diplomatie ce n'est pas pour rien, tellement il y a de subtilités de langage.
Mais comprendre et manier plusieurs langues, je suis toujours admiratif devant les personnes qui ont cette capacité.
En effet, le français est une langue difficile à maîtriser et qui pose de nombreux problèmes, même aux natifs mais je ne pense pas qu'elle soit impossible.
Il me semble que tous les deux, nous la maîtrisons assez bien (d'où le fait que nous corrigions des gens sur ce site :p), cependant, il y a certains points de grammaire ou bien certaines orthographes de mots qui posent pas mal de problèmes.
Ou encore les accents et la conjugaison.
Je pense toutefois qu'en corrigeant des gens ici, j'ai appris pas mal de choses et je connais le français beaucoup mieux qu'il y a 7 mois quand j'ai recommencé Lang-8.
Son problème n'est pas une punition ou autre mais le fait qu'elle ait vu du japonais utilisé d'une façon extrêmement méchante, genre dans un article, un Japonais avait été capturé et les Japonais disaient "様見ろ” qui veut dire "que cela te serve de leçon.
Cependant, en vrai, ils ont juste peur que cela puisse leur arriver un jour ^^
Oui, en effet, pouvoir utiliser une autre langue aussi bien que sa langue maternelle est le rêve de tout apprenant et ce stade de bilinguisme s'ils y parviennent est incroyable. :D
Peut-être est-elle un peu "rigide" quant-à sa façon de penser, de voir les choses, c'est comme ça et pas autrement. Comment dire simplement ? je pense que ton amie a une vision binaire de la vie, c'est noir ou c'est blanc, c'est bien ou c'est mal. La langue est bien utilisée, c'est parfait, la langue est mal utilisée elle rejette sa langue natale, c'est un peu dommage... j'espère qu'elle évoluera sans quoi elle risque d'être malheureuse toute sa vie...
Oui, comme je l'avais écrit dans un de mes articles, c'était une personne super bizarre, trop bizarre, trop timide...ça m'a d'ailleurs énervé à la fin. Je ne savais pas ce qu'elle voulait, elle ne me disait rien, me manifestait rien...
Elle est un peu rigide comme tu l'as dit et sa vie n'est pas très amusante...
En effet, ses pensées sont comme les boutons "on" "off" des appareils électriques ^^
Sa vie doit d'être un enfer...
I love Chinese very much though I always find it unlucky to be born in China.
This language has so many hanzi（kanji in Japanese）, forms a vast vocabulary,
which makes it really hard for foreigners to learn.
yet its infinite extent of expression, its brevity, & its phonetic beauty always make me proud.
I also like English very much cuz it has so many verbs that Chinese doesn't have.
& it's my first foreign language, which I started to learn at 6,
so I just memorize without any complaint.
That's probably I accept it more than French.
I decided to learn French as I thought it's beautiful.
yet now I begin to hate it a little cuz its conjugaisons & pronunciations,
and also I can feel it ruining my English step by step.
As for your friend who hates Japanese language, I sympathize her.
Japan is famous for its mangas, esp. hentai mangas, & BL Drama
（I assure u wouldn't wanna know what it is）.
They are not only all over Asia, but also worldwide popular now, so it may be abused online.
Now the young asian generation feel anything said in Japanese makes one fantasize in a way ...
Voila, c'est ca.
One day, I'll try to learn Chinese, so if you tell me your language's phonetic is beautiful, I want to learn it much more!
Though English and French are subtly linked, I don't think your French can ruin your English.
These languages are quite similar but also so different.
Maybe is it because you speak more French these days than you speak English?
Oh do you think the young generation now thinks like that?
I thought it was the contrary: for non Japanese people, Japanese make them crazy against Japanese people's will.
See "extreme fans" like in Japan Expo or that kind of conventions.
I'm looking forward to walking that long path! ^^
Yes, we've been influenced by anime and some stuff you mentioned above.
@Acire, thanks for your comment!
Since I've never heard your accent, I can't tell you whether it's flat or not but I don't think an accent can be flat.
Otherwise, that means the person talking is very boring and everybody is about to sleep when they hear it ^^
It can't be the case of someone trying to speak his mother tongue well.
I sometimes use words like "Lol" when I speak but it's only for joking or making fun of something. Besides, it's not even French :p
Now you say it, I don't even know what "beautiful English" is, could you show me what it is?
A few weeks ago, a friend of mine stayed at my house for a few days. She told me she didn't like her own language: Japanese.
I don't see the importance of knowing how much time elapsed before she told you she didn't like her language. It doesn't add anything to the story.
She even told me she hated it.
I would say: I had never heard of someone hating their own language, so I was a little bit shocked.
"I had never heard of people who hated their own language" -- this sounds to me almost like there's a whole tribe of people somewhere in the world that hate their own language.
It seemed she saw her own language used in a very bad way and some people said awful things.
This is too vague in my opinion. Who are these people and what are they saying? Is your friend suggesting that the language easily lends itself to deterioration in terms of grammar and usage? Is she saying that it has a lot of vulgar words and it's easier to say offensive things with it than another language? Are you saying that she heard someone say "awful things" about the language that made her dislike it? O__o
Even so, if we've always been speaking and living with a language, how can we reject it?
"It's [Japanese is] the language WE'VE always been speaking..." So you've always spoken Japanese? I doubt that's what you meant! ^^
Suggestion: In my opinion, French is a beautiful language although I'll be the first to admit that its pronunciation and its conjugation are quite hard!
I would never think I was unlucky to be born and raised as a native French speaker.
I like it so much that I plan on teaching it to foreigners who are motivated enough to learn it.
And even if there are sometimes things that make (?) me like French a little bit less, I don't think I would reject my own language as my friend did.
It's true that our languages are badly used on the Internet and full of mistakes in chats, etc., but the Internet is an exception.
I'm sorry, I was too vague but I added much more details in the comments I wrote, so please, take a look at them.
Maybe is this a detail and Ray thought it was more natural not to mention it ^^
It sounds natural (it's not wrong). However, I see no connection with the main points of the entry. You never say why she hesitated, or why that fact was important. You talked about it a bit in your later comments, but not in the entry itself.
Hating a particular language is different from just disliking the whole subject of languages. Your friend might say that she hates Japanese, but she probably just finds it boring to think or talk about.
But I think I shouldn't have paid that much attention at what she told me because she's a bit special ^^'
I only mentioned the fact she didn't like her own language to introduce the main subject "Do you like your mother tongue?".
Oh, that's not the problem. The problem is just the mention that she waited so long to tell you. The wait itself doesn't seem relevant; of course, the fact that she doesn't like her language is relevant. >_<
-->because of some horrible comments she saw on "2chan"
I find it hard to believe that she honestly dislikes the language for the way it's used. The fault there is not with the language, but with the people choose to use it that way. This sounds more like dislike for a group of people, not for a language.
-->she's a bit special
Ha ha ha! It's okay, I'm sure I'm "special" too in many ways! :P
Of course, you're completely right, but I'm not the one you have to convince ^^
I think it's as other members mentioned "the grass is greener on the other side", she thought French was better than Japanese and told me about it.
Yes, that's also my opinion. I think it's so sad she doesn't like her own language...
And lots of foreigners would love to have Japanese as their mother tongue, I think :p
Je suis d'accord avec onizucool que c'est à cause de sa façon de penser et de voir les choses.
Ca m'a fait penser des gens qui aiment tout ce qui est étranger. Le genre qui deteste son propre pays, sa culture ou les concitoyens. Dans ce cas, je pense que le problème n'est pas à cause de la langue en soi mais plutôt la mentalité qu'elle posséde.
Peut-être elle a vecu des choses difficile ? Du coup, elle a associé ces mauvaises expériences avec la langue. Il y a aussi une possibilité qu'elle croit que l'herbe est toujours plus verte ailleurs.
Je suis entièrement d'accord avec ce que tu viens d'écrire (les deux derniers paragraphes)
J'aime beaucoup poster ce genre d'article ayant un rapport avec la linguistique, mon sujet préféré, bien que je ne sois pas doué pour présenter les choses... :(
Merci de poster souvent des commentaires !
En effet, elle a vécu des choses difficiles et elle a pas mal de problèmes.
Cependant, le fait qu'elle déteste sa langue vient d'autre part.
C'est sur un site japonais "2chan" qu'elle a commencé à la détester.
En voyant les horribles commentaires et l'horrible japonais que les gens postent sur ce site, elle a été dégoûtée de cette langue.
J'ai lu certains de ces commentaires et oui il est vrai que certains ne sont pas très sympathiques.
Mais bon, je trouve tout de même dommage de ne plus aimer sa langue pour un petit problème comme celui-ci, surtout que toutes les langues sont abusées sur Internet.
Les gens pensent qu'ils peuvent écrire n'importe quoi parce que c'est Internet...
Oui, elle pense que l'herbe est plus verte chez le voisin mais elle n'a pas beaucoup confiance en elle aussi...
Enfin, le sujet que je voulais présenter aujourd'hui était juste de savoir s'il était possible de détester sa langue et avoir l'avis et connaître l'expérience des gens ^^
Oui, je pense que c'est possible de detester sa langue. Je connais quelqu'un qui deteste le Tagalog. En fait, il est sur lang-8 :P
Pour moi l'utilisation differente d'une langue, qu’il soit en ligne ou en vrai, est juste une partie d'une sous-culture. Aux philippines, il y a beaucoup de sous-culture qui a marqué un influence sur le Tagalog dans l'ensemble.
Exemple :
Konyo talk - Parlé par les haute bourgeoisie. C'est un mix de tagalog et anglais ou autrement dit, taglish.
Gay lingo - Parlé par les homosexuels. J'ai souvent du mal à comprendre les mots utilisée.
Jejemons - Utilisée par des gens en ligne " KAmUhzta nuhh, I mizs y0whzz " (-_-)
Enfin, c'est juste une façon de s'exprimer. L'anonymat sur internet permette les gens de dire ce qu'on veut dire. Malheureusement, la mauvaise grammaire et la méchanté sont devenues acceptables. On peut voir que la langue est dégradée jusqu'à un certain point. En fait, j'espère que ces choses seraient plus régulé.
Donc, elle a le droit de detester cette partie de la langue mais j'espère qu'elle ne deteste pas la langue dans l'ensemble.
Il y a beaucoup de choses que je n'aime pas avec le Tagalog. Mais la realité est que la langue évolue. On espère que ça changera pour le mieux. :D
Je ne savais pas qu'il était mélangé à l'anglais et qu'il y avait une langue parlée par les homosexuels.
Le "Jejemons" m'a fait penser à une nouvelle "langue" née sur Internet et qui est parlée par les gens que nous appelons les "fashons" à l'école. (le 'i', est retiré expressément pour se moquer).
C'est censé être du français, voici un petit exemple.
"j3 t'ayym3uh tro' mah b3stahh." Et encore ce n'est qu'une pâle imitation.
Quand je vois cela, je ne peux m'empêcher d'éprouver de la pitié ><
Il me semble malheureusement qu'elle déteste la langue dans son ensemble mais elle est obligée de la parler puisqu'elle vit là-bas.
Bien remarqué ;)
> "j3 t'ayym3uh tro' mah b3stahh."
lol ! j'essaye de le déchiffrer. C'est quoi ce mot, " b3stahh " ? hahaha
Cela vient de l'anglais "best friend", dont le "best" a été adapté en "fashon" ^^
Je hais cette façon de parler qui s'est répandue avec les blog "Skyrock" qui heureusement ne sont plus à la mode maintenant !
En fait, je connais Skyrock. Je suis y allé quand j'ai cherché des blogs en français. Evidemment, j'avais du mal à compris à cause de ces "fashon" lol
Ahh, ne regarde pas ce site ><
Oui, je vais garder ça à l'esprit :D
I love my mother tongue & I think that it's one of the most beautiful languages in the world. I never hate any language because they are all different. ^^
One thing which is different here in Japan than in other countries is that they do not care much about their language. Not like France, Japan do not pay much effort in respecting and protecting their own language. That's why there're so many strange expressions and the language is losing lots of its beauty.
Your comment was really interesting, I had never heard of such a part of Japan!
You're right, here in France/Belgium we have "L'Académie française" which protects the language but I've never heard of something similar over there.
However, I don't think Japanese is as much abused as French, particularly on the Internet where the native speakers don't know any more how to write correctly their own language - maybe is it why the Académie has been created? :)
I'll pay more attention to it.
If I become a little bit better at Japanese, I'll try to compare old books/songs with new one ^^
Because I can realize that each language has unique expressions and so does Japanese. :)
Do you really like Japanese?
Couldn't you teach me it?
Yes of course, I can tell the same thing as you as I'm a language geek. ^^'
After listening all the time to the same language you get sick of it. Specially if you love to learn languages.
You say that you are French, France has is in Europe and you have a lot of contact with other languages. So you can easily move a bit and choose to talk other language.
Where as Argentinians dont have this luck to be immerse with other cultures.
Yes, there is a lot of cursing in my language. A lot of mispronunciation of words.
When people from my country use words from English they dont pronounced them correctly.
Like Tasi instead of Taxi, or when saying a brand of cigarettes they say Phili Bo instead of Philip Box, I get a headache every time I listen to this. Also when there is abuse of slang.
I think that most people should go to a foreign country and speak a foreign language after 18 years old.