Sarcasm or modesty
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Yesterday I talked about my daughter with an America lady. I said my daughter was a university student studying fine arts. She asked me, "Is she talented?" I answered "I'm not sure, but at least she draws better than me." She said "That might not be saying much." Then she added "That is a sarcastic sentence."
According to a dictionary "sarcastic" means "marked by or given to using irony in order to mock or convey contempt."
I'm not a talented artist. She and I already knew it. Therefore it was obvious that my daughter drew better than me. Even so, I dear compared my daughter to me. This implied that I mocked her.
She might think I was a sarcastic person. I don't know a native English speaker's feeling about "sarcastic", but judging by the dictionary definition "sarcastic" is a negative word. I don't want to make friends with a too much sarcastic person. (A little bit sarcastic person is welcome. It's spice of life.)
How did she think?
Japanese people never think I am a sarcastic person, instead they think I am a good and polite person. Because what I said was modesty.
When Japanese person talks about himself, in order to show his respect to the person he is talking to, he says he is worse than in reality. The logic is that if he becomes lower then the other person becomes higher relatively. Putting the other person at a higher position shows his respect. This is Japanese modesty. In the Japanese modesty, those whom he put at a lower position include not only himself but also all people on his side, such as his wife, his children etc.
In my case, I was talking about my daughter. She was on my side. Therefore I put her at a lower position by using a sarcastic sentence. The literal meaning of the sarcastic sentence was mocking her but I was not going to mock her. I was going to show respect to the person I was talking to.
Do people outside Japan find it difficult to understand it?
According to a dictionary "sarcastic" means "marked by or given to using irony in order to mock or convey contempt."
I'm not a talented artist. She and I already knew it. Therefore it was obvious that my daughter drew better than me. Even so, I dear compared my daughter to me. This implied that I mocked her.
She might think I was a sarcastic person. I don't know a native English speaker's feeling about "sarcastic", but judging by the dictionary definition "sarcastic" is a negative word. I don't want to make friends with a too much sarcastic person. (A little bit sarcastic person is welcome. It's spice of life.)
How did she think?
Japanese people never think I am a sarcastic person, instead they think I am a good and polite person. Because what I said was modesty.
When Japanese person talks about himself, in order to show his respect to the person he is talking to, he says he is worse than in reality. The logic is that if he becomes lower then the other person becomes higher relatively. Putting the other person at a higher position shows his respect. This is Japanese modesty. In the Japanese modesty, those whom he put at a lower position include not only himself but also all people on his side, such as his wife, his children etc.
In my case, I was talking about my daughter. She was on my side. Therefore I put her at a lower position by using a sarcastic sentence. The literal meaning of the sarcastic sentence was mocking her but I was not going to mock her. I was going to show respect to the person I was talking to.
Do people outside Japan find it difficult to understand it?
Yesterday I talked about my daughter with an American lady.
I said/told her my daughter was a university student studying fine arts.
According to the dictionary, "sarcastic" means "marked by or given to using irony in order to mock or convey contempt."
Even so, I dear compared my daughter to me.
I don't know how a native English speaker's feeling about "sarcastic", but judging by the dictionary definition, "sarcastic" is a negative word.
I don't want to make friends with people who are a too much sarcastic person.
(People who are a little bit sarcastic person is are welcome.
It's the spice of life.)
How What did she think?
Because what I was being modest. said was modesty.
When a Japanese person talks about himself, in order to show his respect to the person he is talking to, he says he is worse than he actually is in reality.
In the Japanese modesty, those whom he put at a lower position include not only himself but also all people on his side, such as his wife, his children etc.
A lot of people aren't really aware of Japanese modesty, I would say. Some people do sometimes mistake it for genuine lack of self confidence and don't really see the social implications it has. I wouldn't think too much of it!
In English, sometimes it's friendly to say something like this American lady did, but even English speakers soemtimes feel the same as you did "What did she mean by " "..?"
So, if you know this lady really well then it was friendly. If you had just met her or did not know her well...She was quite rude.
Tatsuya-san: She draws better than me.
Lady: That's not saying much... <--その意味は、
[笑]、Tatsuya-sanの娘さんはすごく絵がうまいですか。
彼女、よりもＴａｔｓｕｙａ－ｓａｎｎですか。
（￣ー￣）ニヤリ
そうですねー、私は、Tatsuya-sanの絵を見ませんでした。たぶん、Tatsuya-sanの絵を描くことは苦手ですね。
（＾＿－）☆
[笑]、So...if your daughter is better... this might not mean much.
(￣▽￣)ノ＿彡☆バンバン！!
it requires additional time to get the information they want, and so maybe your teacher was irritated by the experience. maybe you should explain to your teacher how she can ask you directly what your daughters ability is next time.
Yesterday I talked about my daughter with an American lady.
Even so, I dared to compare my daughter to me.
She might have thought that I was a sarcastic person.
I don't know a native English speaker's feeling about "sarcastic", but judging by the dictionary definition "sarcastic" has a negative connotation.
I don't want to make friends with a person who is too sarcastic.
(A little bit of sarcasm in a person is welcomed.
It adds spice to life.)
What do you think she was thinking?
This is because what I say has modesty.
When a Japanese person talks about himself, in order to show his respect to the person that he is talking to, he says he is worse than he is in reality. [Maybe, you do not need "that". However, this clearly marks the start of the relative clause, "that he is talking to", and this modifies "person". "that 抜き" is a bad style in my opinion because it makes the grammar harder to analyze.]
The logic is that if he understates his stature, then the other person appears to be superior.
Putting the other person in a higher position shows his respect.
Regarding Japanese modesty, one effects an inferior stature upon not only himself, but also upon his affiliates, such as his wife, his children etc.
She was affiliated with me.
Therefore I understated her abilities by using a sarcastic sentence.
The literal meaning of the sarcastic sentence was to mock her, but I was not going to mock her.
文化の違いって面白いですね☆
いい内容をありがとうございます！
Yesterday I talked about my daughter with an American lady.
According to a dictionary "sarcastic" means "marked by or given to using irony in order to mock or convey contempt." [Saying "a dictionary" is fine here, because it may be phrased differently in different dictionaries.]
Therefore it was obvious that my daughter drew draws better than me. [drew implies that she did before, but does not draw better than you now.]
Even so, I dear dared to compare my daughter to me.
She might think may have thought that I was a sarcastic person.
I don't know how a native English speaker's speakers feeling about "sarcasm", but judging by the dictionary definition "sarcasm" is a negative word.
I don't want to make friends with a too much sarcastic person. a person who is too sarcastic.
(A little bit sarcastic person is welcome. of sarcasm is welcome.
It's adds spice of to life.)
How did she think? What do you think her opinion was?
Because what I said say was is usually modest.
When a Japanese person talks about himself, in order to show his respect to the person he is talking to, he says he is worse than he is in reality.
The logic is that if he becomes lower seems less proficient than the other person, then that person seems superior by comparison.
Putting the other person at in a higher position shows his him respect. [Did you mean shows "him," as in the other person, respect? Or shows your respect towards the other person? If it was the first one, then "him" is correct. However, if it was the second statement, then "his" should be used.]
Of course, I was not there to see what her attitude was, but to me, for someone to have said something like that would have come across as a bit rude. I'm also an American, for the record, and I'm occasionally sarcastic when I'm with friends who know me well, BUT - I don't use it against other people. There is self deprecating sarcasm (which can also be annoying if used too much), and then there's sarcasm meant to belittle others.
If she's someone you've known for a long time, it would have been acceptable for her to tease you like that - nothing's wrong with that when you're comfortable with someone, and know that they're really otherwise a nice person and a good friend. If this person was someone you only just met and she came off with something like that....faux pas on her part, imo. As a native American English speaker who has met and had to work with and endure a LOT of annoyingly sarcastic people through the years, that remark would have told me that she's a bit of a blunt personality, and that's not someone I like to hang around with. I agree with you there. I prefer people who aren't taking cheap shots at me for a laugh. It's a personality type I can get used to if I know the person already under other circumstances and they've proven that they're ok, but just at first?....Bad first impression.
tl;dr: I don't blame you for being a bit hurt and annoyed with her response. I would have been, too. In fact, it's annoying me just reading this because I know a few people exactly like that currently who I avoid at all costs because they're irritating. XD I'm really sorry you met someone like that. All it does is add to the stereotype of Americans being a-holes. I hope nobody's reading this post and comment thread and thinking we're all like that. I'm very sensitive to the feelings of others - ESPECIALLY Japanese, since I know that I have to limit how friendly I get with people I don't know well yet. This lady you met failed Japanese Cuture 101 in that regard. Total F. ;)
Don't even worry about it. One rotten apple will NOT spoil the whole bunch - I assure you! You'll meet some nicer Americans. :)